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	<title>Comments on: Teen Sex, Texas Style</title>
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	<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/</link>
	<description>Black. Gay. Father. Vegetarian. Buddhist. Liberal.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 03:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bailey</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-175009</link>
		<dc:creator>Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 06:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-175009</guid>
		<description>You say,"....AIDS is a victory. HPV is and a hysterectomy at twenty is a victory. An unplanned pregnancy is a victory. It adds up to victory because prevention is not the point....." How is prevention not the point? Do you really want to get HPV and a hysterctomy at twenty? Those are things that you can and mostlikely will die from. So, how is having them a victory? Honestly, I just think that you are twisted. You don't have to twist Stenzel's commits around to understand them. She is very very very pain in what she says.You dont need to twist and turn what she says to have it make sence.

Really, I just think that this thing that you have posted isn't all that correct. I'm really not trying to be rude or mean to you in any way possible. But PLEASE see where Stenzel is coming from.

    Sincerely,
         -Miss. Bailey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You say,&#8221;&#8230;.AIDS is a victory. HPV is and a hysterectomy at twenty is a victory. An unplanned pregnancy is a victory. It adds up to victory because prevention is not the point&#8230;..&#8221; How is prevention not the point? Do you really want to get HPV and a hysterctomy at twenty? Those are things that you can and mostlikely will die from. So, how is having them a victory? Honestly, I just think that you are twisted. You don&#8217;t have to twist Stenzel&#8217;s commits around to understand them. She is very very very pain in what she says.You dont need to twist and turn what she says to have it make sence.</p>
<p>Really, I just think that this thing that you have posted isn&#8217;t all that correct. I&#8217;m really not trying to be rude or mean to you in any way possible. But PLEASE see where Stenzel is coming from.</p>
<p>    Sincerely,<br />
         -Miss. Bailey</p>
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		<title>By: George Arndt</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-15699</link>
		<dc:creator>George Arndt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-15699</guid>
		<description>If teens are told that condoms are unsafe, in all probability they will have sex without condoms. And many teens are just having oral sex instead. 

	Saying that teens who don’t abstain from Sex “deserve” to have consequences is not so far removed from the “honor killing” which occurs in some parts of the Arab world. (Especially in light of AIDS) What the right fears is not the consequences of pre-marital sex, but rather  pre-marital sex with NO consequences. They have a stake in risky sex, because it re-enforces the concept of Abstinence. Putting them in charge of sex education is clearly the wolf guarding the hen house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If teens are told that condoms are unsafe, in all probability they will have sex without condoms. And many teens are just having oral sex instead. </p>
<p>	Saying that teens who don’t abstain from Sex “deserve” to have consequences is not so far removed from the “honor killing” which occurs in some parts of the Arab world. (Especially in light of AIDS) What the right fears is not the consequences of pre-marital sex, but rather  pre-marital sex with NO consequences. They have a stake in risky sex, because it re-enforces the concept of Abstinence. Putting them in charge of sex education is clearly the wolf guarding the hen house.</p>
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		<title>By: terrance</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-14946</link>
		<dc:creator>terrance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-14946</guid>
		<description>It doesn't matter if abstinence-only doesn't prevent STDs or unwanted pregnancies. 

I don't only of a context in which that makes sense. And when you combine it with the patently false propaganda about "condom failure" it's downright dangerous. In a country like Africa, it's genocidal. Why? Because it denies reality, and the reality is that people have sex, and often have it outside of any context Stenzel might approve of. That does not mean, however that they deserve to die. 

And abstinence-only is not about "teaching the facts." I spent years as an HIV prevention educator, and in every talk I gave I talked about abstinence. I said that it's the only "100% positive" way to avoid STD or pregnancy. And I"ll support anyone who decides that's the way for them, and I'll help them with strategies on how to support that choice, if that's their choice. 

However, abstinence-&lt;em&gt;only&lt;/em&gt; is only half the story. If people choose to be sexually active, then they also deserve information on how to lower their risks. Yes, condoms fail sometimes, as do contraceptives, but if you use them you have a better chance of avoiding unwanted consequences than if you have sex without them (and abstinence-only education as proven effective at reducing condom use without reducing sexual activity, thus increasing the risk of unwanted pregnancies and STD). 

But Stenzel's afraid that will just help them "sin without consequence." So, if the girls at her clinic only heard about abstinence as an option, then they didn't get all the facts. And they were probably more at risk when the walked out than when they went in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter if abstinence-only doesn&#8217;t prevent STDs or unwanted pregnancies. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t only of a context in which that makes sense. And when you combine it with the patently false propaganda about &#8220;condom failure&#8221; it&#8217;s downright dangerous. In a country like Africa, it&#8217;s genocidal. Why? Because it denies reality, and the reality is that people have sex, and often have it outside of any context Stenzel might approve of. That does not mean, however that they deserve to die. </p>
<p>And abstinence-only is not about &#8220;teaching the facts.&#8221; I spent years as an HIV prevention educator, and in every talk I gave I talked about abstinence. I said that it&#8217;s the only &#8220;100% positive&#8221; way to avoid STD or pregnancy. And I&#8221;ll support anyone who decides that&#8217;s the way for them, and I&#8217;ll help them with strategies on how to support that choice, if that&#8217;s their choice. </p>
<p>However, abstinence-<em>only</em> is only half the story. If people choose to be sexually active, then they also deserve information on how to lower their risks. Yes, condoms fail sometimes, as do contraceptives, but if you use them you have a better chance of avoiding unwanted consequences than if you have sex without them (and abstinence-only education as proven effective at reducing condom use without reducing sexual activity, thus increasing the risk of unwanted pregnancies and STD). </p>
<p>But Stenzel&#8217;s afraid that will just help them &#8220;sin without consequence.&#8221; So, if the girls at her clinic only heard about abstinence as an option, then they didn&#8217;t get all the facts. And they were probably more at risk when the walked out than when they went in.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-14926</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-14926</guid>
		<description>I am saddly disappointed that you chose to only use one quote of Pam Stenzel's speech, without letting us know about the whole thing.  She does care about the consequences, that is why she wants teenagers all across the world to know what those consequences are.  She was speaking in the context of which is more important to her, the physical consequences of sex, or the spiritual consequences.  But the very reason she began speaking is because the young girls she saw in the clinic she worked at did not know the facts.  No one can make the choice for anyone else as to whether they will have sex.  Her responsibility is letting them know what they are getting into.  Please don't take things out of context.  She is one of the most powerful, caring, and truthful speakers I have ever heard, and I am very thankful for the priviledge of having heard her speak live.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am saddly disappointed that you chose to only use one quote of Pam Stenzel&#8217;s speech, without letting us know about the whole thing.  She does care about the consequences, that is why she wants teenagers all across the world to know what those consequences are.  She was speaking in the context of which is more important to her, the physical consequences of sex, or the spiritual consequences.  But the very reason she began speaking is because the young girls she saw in the clinic she worked at did not know the facts.  No one can make the choice for anyone else as to whether they will have sex.  Her responsibility is letting them know what they are getting into.  Please don&#8217;t take things out of context.  She is one of the most powerful, caring, and truthful speakers I have ever heard, and I am very thankful for the priviledge of having heard her speak live.</p>
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		<title>By: LSmith</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-2621</link>
		<dc:creator>LSmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 20:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-2621</guid>
		<description>JLynn,

Hello. I'm a contributor for ESPN magazine in New York and I'm currently reporting a story on the controversy at Ozen. I'd very much like to speak with you. Please let me know how I can reach you through this site or other means.

Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JLynn,</p>
<p>Hello. I&#8217;m a contributor for ESPN magazine in New York and I&#8217;m currently reporting a story on the controversy at Ozen. I&#8217;d very much like to speak with you. Please let me know how I can reach you through this site or other means.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: JLynn</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-2257</link>
		<dc:creator>JLynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 23:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-2257</guid>
		<description>I went to Ozen High School.

I was _not_ a member of the majority race at that high school.

I was _not_ harmed by any member of this "sex club."

I'm white, and I went to a poor high school in Beaumont's South Side.

Yes, this incident happened in Texas, but not in a predominately conservative area.  Quite the opposite.  Southeast Texas has a history of liberal party dominance, and the school in question is one of some-odd 70% African Amercian students.  In other words, quite liberal.

Religion was rarely an issue at Ozen.  The majority of the students and teachers fancied themselves Christian, but no one was ever discouraged from speaking their minds.  

On the matter of sex education, I wholeheartedly agree that it should be taught with safety in mind.  Abstinence-only wasn't taught, but the health class more or less skimmed over sex ed, sadly.

However, most of the students I knew said they used condoms.  There was the afternoon a used one was lying in the science hall.  I would overhear conversations in the library about the active sex lives of other students.  There were a handful of teenage mothers at school, yes, but not to the point where I thought of it as some kind of epidemic.

My point is, the purpose of the main post is spot-on, but not the example given.  Ozen's sex club is not an example of conservatism at work.  It was something else.  Remembering high school, I have an idea of what was really at work.

At my graduation my dad was taking me back to the car and looking over all the celebrating students in the parking lot.  He had a defeated look in his eyes and said "Do you realize that for most of the people here this may be the greatest achievement of their lives?"  The matter-of-factly way he put this caused my heart to sink.

These were students who were dead certain that society would never let them have any moment greater.  So why bother?  There was a vague abandon in the behavior at Ozen.  There were fights at least once a week.  In the open.  It didn't matter what teacher saw.  I recall walking through the courtyard between classes far too often and seeing crowds runnng to watch what new fight had broken out.  Once I ended up walking past weave that was ripped out of some girl's head on the sidewalk.

The few teachers who were passionate about teaching were driven away from the school through some means or another.  My creative writing teacher lost his certification because he was given the wrong test by the district.  My English teacher left to escape the all-too-tightly knit politics of both Southeast Texas and Beaumont's south side.  The psychology teacher who got fed up with the majority of students seeming to think "elective" means "no effort required."  The band went through four different band teachers in one year.  The amazing Spanish teacher who also organized a space exploration class--which would have included a trip to Florida to watch a shuttle launch--but was cut funding halfway through the year; he left because missionary work was more rewarding than trying to teach under the Beaumont Independant School District.

Who were the majority of teachers there then?  The French teacher who was trying to seduce me.  The history teacher who let his students watch Jerry Springer on a TV in his class and had his pet dog "Shithead" sit in on classes.  The journalism teacher who kept a pile of pre-signed student passes to let the students she didn't want to deal with wander the halls.   The teachers who taught nothing but the Texas standardized test.

I am aware of what my fellow students went through.  From begining to end, they were the victims of political and economical tug of war, and the result of that was the Koochie Kissing Klub.  

White vs. Black
West Side vs. South Side
Rich vs. Poor

Everyone choose your sides, it's the only struggle that matters.  

And those of us who never wanted to choose just ended up leaving to let the town continue to fester in itself.  

I'm saddened.  I'm saddened dearly that no one could pay attention to my high school when it needed the attention.  Only when there's something to jeer at.  Only when it's politically pertinent.

I went to Ozen High School.  

I've seen political negligence and society's apathy at its worst.  I know what it does to young people. 

And until it served their agenda, no one cared.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to Ozen High School.</p>
<p>I was _not_ a member of the majority race at that high school.</p>
<p>I was _not_ harmed by any member of this &#8220;sex club.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m white, and I went to a poor high school in Beaumont&#8217;s South Side.</p>
<p>Yes, this incident happened in Texas, but not in a predominately conservative area.  Quite the opposite.  Southeast Texas has a history of liberal party dominance, and the school in question is one of some-odd 70% African Amercian students.  In other words, quite liberal.</p>
<p>Religion was rarely an issue at Ozen.  The majority of the students and teachers fancied themselves Christian, but no one was ever discouraged from speaking their minds.  </p>
<p>On the matter of sex education, I wholeheartedly agree that it should be taught with safety in mind.  Abstinence-only wasn&#8217;t taught, but the health class more or less skimmed over sex ed, sadly.</p>
<p>However, most of the students I knew said they used condoms.  There was the afternoon a used one was lying in the science hall.  I would overhear conversations in the library about the active sex lives of other students.  There were a handful of teenage mothers at school, yes, but not to the point where I thought of it as some kind of epidemic.</p>
<p>My point is, the purpose of the main post is spot-on, but not the example given.  Ozen&#8217;s sex club is not an example of conservatism at work.  It was something else.  Remembering high school, I have an idea of what was really at work.</p>
<p>At my graduation my dad was taking me back to the car and looking over all the celebrating students in the parking lot.  He had a defeated look in his eyes and said &#8220;Do you realize that for most of the people here this may be the greatest achievement of their lives?&#8221;  The matter-of-factly way he put this caused my heart to sink.</p>
<p>These were students who were dead certain that society would never let them have any moment greater.  So why bother?  There was a vague abandon in the behavior at Ozen.  There were fights at least once a week.  In the open.  It didn&#8217;t matter what teacher saw.  I recall walking through the courtyard between classes far too often and seeing crowds runnng to watch what new fight had broken out.  Once I ended up walking past weave that was ripped out of some girl&#8217;s head on the sidewalk.</p>
<p>The few teachers who were passionate about teaching were driven away from the school through some means or another.  My creative writing teacher lost his certification because he was given the wrong test by the district.  My English teacher left to escape the all-too-tightly knit politics of both Southeast Texas and Beaumont&#8217;s south side.  The psychology teacher who got fed up with the majority of students seeming to think &#8220;elective&#8221; means &#8220;no effort required.&#8221;  The band went through four different band teachers in one year.  The amazing Spanish teacher who also organized a space exploration class&#8211;which would have included a trip to Florida to watch a shuttle launch&#8211;but was cut funding halfway through the year; he left because missionary work was more rewarding than trying to teach under the Beaumont Independant School District.</p>
<p>Who were the majority of teachers there then?  The French teacher who was trying to seduce me.  The history teacher who let his students watch Jerry Springer on a TV in his class and had his pet dog &#8220;Shithead&#8221; sit in on classes.  The journalism teacher who kept a pile of pre-signed student passes to let the students she didn&#8217;t want to deal with wander the halls.   The teachers who taught nothing but the Texas standardized test.</p>
<p>I am aware of what my fellow students went through.  From begining to end, they were the victims of political and economical tug of war, and the result of that was the Koochie Kissing Klub.  </p>
<p>White vs. Black<br />
West Side vs. South Side<br />
Rich vs. Poor</p>
<p>Everyone choose your sides, it&#8217;s the only struggle that matters.  </p>
<p>And those of us who never wanted to choose just ended up leaving to let the town continue to fester in itself.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m saddened.  I&#8217;m saddened dearly that no one could pay attention to my high school when it needed the attention.  Only when there&#8217;s something to jeer at.  Only when it&#8217;s politically pertinent.</p>
<p>I went to Ozen High School.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen political negligence and society&#8217;s apathy at its worst.  I know what it does to young people. </p>
<p>And until it served their agenda, no one cared.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-2062</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-2062</guid>
		<description>I'm a big reader of George Lakoff and his work on morality "frames" in conservative &#38; liberal politics.  His book Moral Politics is my bible...and I see a Lakoff book listed in the "current reading" list just over to the right as I write this!  We forget his lessons at our peril as progressives:
&lt;blockquote&gt;This is the same as the conservative answer to teen pregnancy and the spread of AIDS.  Don't give out condoms or clean needles, as liberals urge.  That just encourages promiscuity.  Instead, be tough and teach self-discipline, self-restraint, and abstinence.  In a moral system in which morality is correlated with self-discipline and chastity and following societal norms, the moral people won't get pregnant or get AIDS.  And the immoral people...Well, they have to learn to be responsible for their actions and they deserve what they get if they don't learn...p. 187&lt;/blockquote&gt;
When the moral frame is extended like this is exposes the conservatives agenda as one of promoting religion onto those it feels need "saving" from thenselves through condemnation and self-righteousness.  As progressives we need to adopt a new rhetoric of compassion that taps into calls for self-reliance and restraint while recognizing all of our inherent weaknesses as human beings.  This is the space for government to work for the betterment of everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a big reader of George Lakoff and his work on morality &#8220;frames&#8221; in conservative &amp; liberal politics.  His book Moral Politics is my bible&#8230;and I see a Lakoff book listed in the &#8220;current reading&#8221; list just over to the right as I write this!  We forget his lessons at our peril as progressives:</p>
<blockquote><p>This is the same as the conservative answer to teen pregnancy and the spread of AIDS.  Don&#8217;t give out condoms or clean needles, as liberals urge.  That just encourages promiscuity.  Instead, be tough and teach self-discipline, self-restraint, and abstinence.  In a moral system in which morality is correlated with self-discipline and chastity and following societal norms, the moral people won&#8217;t get pregnant or get AIDS.  And the immoral people&#8230;Well, they have to learn to be responsible for their actions and they deserve what they get if they don&#8217;t learn&#8230;p. 187</p></blockquote>
<p>When the moral frame is extended like this is exposes the conservatives agenda as one of promoting religion onto those it feels need &#8220;saving&#8221; from thenselves through condemnation and self-righteousness.  As progressives we need to adopt a new rhetoric of compassion that taps into calls for self-reliance and restraint while recognizing all of our inherent weaknesses as human beings.  This is the space for government to work for the betterment of everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristina</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-2045</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/08/14/teen-sex-texas-style/#comment-2045</guid>
		<description>Preach on, brother!

I plan on posting something soon about "family values" and what that statement means to me - something much different than its intended meaning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Preach on, brother!</p>
<p>I plan on posting something soon about &#8220;family values&#8221; and what that statement means to me - something much different than its intended meaning.</p>
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