<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Brown Bagging It: The Clinton Blogger Lunch Redux</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/browning-out/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/browning-out/</link>
	<description>Black. Gay. Father. Vegetarian. Buddhist. Liberal.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: African American Political Pundit&#187;Blog Archive &#187; Blogging While Brown, Part III</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/browning-out/#comment-68013</link>
		<dc:creator>African American Political Pundit&#187;Blog Archive &#187; Blogging While Brown, Part III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/358/#comment-68013</guid>
		<description>[...] But it does mean dipping a toe back into the waters of the debate around blogs and diversity. And even though I’ve written about blogging while brown before, I was a little reluctant to do so again. The last time I “went there,” the water turned out to be hotter than I expected. It only got hotter, and several people ended up getting a little scalded. In the end I wanted nothing more than to get out of the debate. But some debates you can’t escape, particularly when the have their roots in a larger one. Turns out, I didn’t so much dip a toe into that water as I was born into it, and just wandered into the middle of a “hot spot.” More&#62;         &#8226; &#8226; &#8226;&#160; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] But it does mean dipping a toe back into the waters of the debate around blogs and diversity. And even though I’ve written about blogging while brown before, I was a little reluctant to do so again. The last time I “went there,” the water turned out to be hotter than I expected. It only got hotter, and several people ended up getting a little scalded. In the end I wanted nothing more than to get out of the debate. But some debates you can’t escape, particularly when the have their roots in a larger one. Turns out, I didn’t so much dip a toe into that water as I was born into it, and just wandered into the middle of a “hot spot.” More&gt;         &#8226; &#8226; &#8226;&nbsp; [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bitch &#124; Lab &#187; Blogibirthdaversary</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/browning-out/#comment-9828</link>
		<dc:creator>Bitch &#124; Lab &#187; Blogibirthdaversary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/358/#comment-9828</guid>
		<description>[...] Terrance at Republic of T was pondering what kind of blog he had, riffing off the work of Clay Shirkey. I like that idea: that if there were an epitaph for Bitch &#124; Lab it would be, &#8220;The best discussion was in the comments section.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Terrance at Republic of T was pondering what kind of blog he had, riffing off the work of Clay Shirkey. I like that idea: that if there were an epitaph for Bitch | Lab it would be, &#8220;The best discussion was in the comments section.&#8221; [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ahem</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/browning-out/#comment-6789</link>
		<dc:creator>ahem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Sep 2006 02:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/358/#comment-6789</guid>
		<description>TRex, blog hanger-on, appears to think he's King of the World now that he has a bully pulpit he didn't help build. Wanna know why people started reading FDL, TRex? Wasn't because of you, and it wasn't because of snitty bullshit. And what the blogosphere gives, it can also take away. Oh, and replying to comments then deleting the original? Cheap, cheap, cheap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TRex, blog hanger-on, appears to think he&#8217;s King of the World now that he has a bully pulpit he didn&#8217;t help build. Wanna know why people started reading FDL, TRex? Wasn&#8217;t because of you, and it wasn&#8217;t because of snitty bullshit. And what the blogosphere gives, it can also take away. Oh, and replying to comments then deleting the original? Cheap, cheap, cheap.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Open Reading Frame</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/browning-out/#comment-6786</link>
		<dc:creator>Open Reading Frame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Sep 2006 01:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/358/#comment-6786</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;When life gives you melons......&lt;/strong&gt;

Breasts. Breasts, breasts, breasts, breasts, breasts. Breasts. Breasts, breasts, breasts. Breasts! Breasts, breasts, breasts, breasts, breasts, breasts, breasts! Breasts, breasts, breasts. Breasts, breasts! Breasts. There. Now, if Ann Outhouse wants to...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>When life gives you melons&#8230;&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Breasts. Breasts, breasts, breasts, breasts, breasts. Breasts. Breasts, breasts, breasts. Breasts! Breasts, breasts, breasts, breasts, breasts, breasts, breasts! Breasts, breasts, breasts. Breasts, breasts! Breasts. There. Now, if Ann Outhouse wants to&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dark sun</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/browning-out/#comment-6478</link>
		<dc:creator>dark sun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/358/#comment-6478</guid>
		<description>I haven't commented about this anywhere, yet.  I thought of weighing in at firedoglake, where I sometimes comment under another name, but decided I didn't feel like being called a "concern troll" which is what typically what a commenter gets called when they even think of taking a dissenting point of view.  

But, I want to follow up on Pam's excellent comments . . . that a valuable opportunity is being wasted here.  

In a sense, this entire kerfuffle began when Jane Hamsher posted that gawd-awful graphic of Joe Lieberman in blackface, in the arms of Bill Clinton in a Huffingpost blog about a week before the CT primary.  An image that was posted all over the rightwing blogs--starting with Drudge, and gave Dan Gerstien some very nasty ammunition.  As far as I can tell, Liza Sabater was the only person who had the guts to call her on it.  Now, I wouldn't go so far as to call Hamsher an idiot, but it cannot be denied,that using that image showed an abysmal lack of judgement.  Right after that, Jane Hamsher was no longer "close" to the Lamont campaign . . .  I figure that the Lamont campaign had no choice but to ask her get as scarce as possible asap.  

So then this  . . .  and Liza lashes out a Jane again.  Again, perhaps she could've been a little more tactful, but to criticize Liza for her temper when Jane and Christy both routinely lash out, quite nastily, at people who get under their skin is ridiculous.  It looks like a huge double standard, and it is.  

So, all this to lead up to the real point I want to make.  I am a white person, but I am the mother of a grown POC daughter, so I have had to learn to see things that I would not have easily seen as a white person.  

In my view, it is impossible to grow up in this country and not be somehow psychologically scared by the rampant racism which exists wthin this culture.  Much of it is very subtle.  In liberal, well-meaning types who abhor injustice in any form, like myself, it tends to manifest unconsciously -- ie, it is not seen or even known about.  So, POC see it, feel it, experience, but the "perpetrators" don't.  And when faced with an angry reaction, they feel victimized and misunderstood.  One of the commenters above pointed an example of this kind of thing out when white liberals go on and on 'sympathetically" about the "poor" "uneducated" minorities. 

I think this is why Jane Hamsher (and darkblack) were unable to understand  (either before or after) why posting the blackface image is so offensive.  They didn't have the personal experience, or really understand the history of blackface in this culture.  Which is ok -- none of us are perfect.  But what is really egregarious is the fact that they seemed so uninterested in understanding why it is such a reprehensible and learning from the mistake.

The blackface image - in a similar way in which a swastika (which is originally an ancient and sacred sanskrit symbol) is - symbolizes "deference."  Joe Lieberman is rightly being attacked for his deference to Bush.  I was shocked that Hamsher was insinuating that Joe was a subservient minstrel, that is, it could be read that african-americans are akin to Joe Lieberman.  Now, I realize that that was not Hamsher's conscious intention, but that is how unconscious communications work.  And so when trex told Liza Sabater to stay in her place and respect her betters (with Jane's overt approval and support) the same point was being made, only this time a little more overtly.  

I would love to see someone who is better equipped than I deconstruct this whole thing further.  

One more thing.  Liza's anger.  Anger is never pretty.  But it does have its place.  And if I could count the times when I was dissed by some man and then told to get over myself by some other man when I pushed back, bitched about it, or simply refused to be "nice" about it.  It's really exactly the same thing: a person of privledge (and Jane does have whiteness, money, a bit of fame, and influence) telling a more marginalized person to shut up and be nice.  It is also the way in which school yard bullies behave, and Jane Hamsher like the most creepy has a huge pack to unleash to do her dirty work.  

At any rate, I will not be going back to fdl anymore.  I have been disturbed by the "tone" there for a lot of time, but it is a great source of info and I have really really wanted to believe that they weren't really all that bad. This incident has put that hope to rest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t commented about this anywhere, yet.  I thought of weighing in at firedoglake, where I sometimes comment under another name, but decided I didn&#8217;t feel like being called a &#8220;concern troll&#8221; which is what typically what a commenter gets called when they even think of taking a dissenting point of view.  </p>
<p>But, I want to follow up on Pam&#8217;s excellent comments . . . that a valuable opportunity is being wasted here.  </p>
<p>In a sense, this entire kerfuffle began when Jane Hamsher posted that gawd-awful graphic of Joe Lieberman in blackface, in the arms of Bill Clinton in a Huffingpost blog about a week before the CT primary.  An image that was posted all over the rightwing blogs&#8211;starting with Drudge, and gave Dan Gerstien some very nasty ammunition.  As far as I can tell, Liza Sabater was the only person who had the guts to call her on it.  Now, I wouldn&#8217;t go so far as to call Hamsher an idiot, but it cannot be denied,that using that image showed an abysmal lack of judgement.  Right after that, Jane Hamsher was no longer &#8220;close&#8221; to the Lamont campaign . . .  I figure that the Lamont campaign had no choice but to ask her get as scarce as possible asap.  </p>
<p>So then this  . . .  and Liza lashes out a Jane again.  Again, perhaps she could&#8217;ve been a little more tactful, but to criticize Liza for her temper when Jane and Christy both routinely lash out, quite nastily, at people who get under their skin is ridiculous.  It looks like a huge double standard, and it is.  </p>
<p>So, all this to lead up to the real point I want to make.  I am a white person, but I am the mother of a grown POC daughter, so I have had to learn to see things that I would not have easily seen as a white person.  </p>
<p>In my view, it is impossible to grow up in this country and not be somehow psychologically scared by the rampant racism which exists wthin this culture.  Much of it is very subtle.  In liberal, well-meaning types who abhor injustice in any form, like myself, it tends to manifest unconsciously &#8212; ie, it is not seen or even known about.  So, POC see it, feel it, experience, but the &#8220;perpetrators&#8221; don&#8217;t.  And when faced with an angry reaction, they feel victimized and misunderstood.  One of the commenters above pointed an example of this kind of thing out when white liberals go on and on &#8217;sympathetically&#8221; about the &#8220;poor&#8221; &#8220;uneducated&#8221; minorities. </p>
<p>I think this is why Jane Hamsher (and darkblack) were unable to understand  (either before or after) why posting the blackface image is so offensive.  They didn&#8217;t have the personal experience, or really understand the history of blackface in this culture.  Which is ok &#8212; none of us are perfect.  But what is really egregarious is the fact that they seemed so uninterested in understanding why it is such a reprehensible and learning from the mistake.</p>
<p>The blackface image - in a similar way in which a swastika (which is originally an ancient and sacred sanskrit symbol) is - symbolizes &#8220;deference.&#8221;  Joe Lieberman is rightly being attacked for his deference to Bush.  I was shocked that Hamsher was insinuating that Joe was a subservient minstrel, that is, it could be read that african-americans are akin to Joe Lieberman.  Now, I realize that that was not Hamsher&#8217;s conscious intention, but that is how unconscious communications work.  And so when trex told Liza Sabater to stay in her place and respect her betters (with Jane&#8217;s overt approval and support) the same point was being made, only this time a little more overtly.  </p>
<p>I would love to see someone who is better equipped than I deconstruct this whole thing further.  </p>
<p>One more thing.  Liza&#8217;s anger.  Anger is never pretty.  But it does have its place.  And if I could count the times when I was dissed by some man and then told to get over myself by some other man when I pushed back, bitched about it, or simply refused to be &#8220;nice&#8221; about it.  It&#8217;s really exactly the same thing: a person of privledge (and Jane does have whiteness, money, a bit of fame, and influence) telling a more marginalized person to shut up and be nice.  It is also the way in which school yard bullies behave, and Jane Hamsher like the most creepy has a huge pack to unleash to do her dirty work.  </p>
<p>At any rate, I will not be going back to fdl anymore.  I have been disturbed by the &#8220;tone&#8221; there for a lot of time, but it is a great source of info and I have really really wanted to believe that they weren&#8217;t really all that bad. This incident has put that hope to rest.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lorin11</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/browning-out/#comment-6456</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorin11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/358/#comment-6456</guid>
		<description>Terrance, I have known you long enough to know that you would not have said what you did without believing it to be true.  And I choose to believe that she would not have responded as she did to me without being convinced that she was telling me the truth. Since I confronted her directly, and she gave me the courtesy of a personal response which struck me as sincere, I felt duty-bound to report that here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrance, I have known you long enough to know that you would not have said what you did without believing it to be true.  And I choose to believe that she would not have responded as she did to me without being convinced that she was telling me the truth. Since I confronted her directly, and she gave me the courtesy of a personal response which struck me as sincere, I felt duty-bound to report that here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: terrance</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/browning-out/#comment-6453</link>
		<dc:creator>terrance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/358/#comment-6453</guid>
		<description>Well, now I guess it's my word against hers. Unless I'm seeing things, I remember seeing my blog listed on the FDL blogroll within the last few days. Yesterday I noticed it missing. But, alas, I didn't have the forethought to take screenshots. So, I can't prove that I saw what I thought saw.

Beyond that I can only say that I &lt;em&gt;might&lt;/em&gt; have been mistaken, and &lt;em&gt;if&lt;/em&gt; I was I'm sorry for the implication that it was removed in retaliation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, now I guess it&#8217;s my word against hers. Unless I&#8217;m seeing things, I remember seeing my blog listed on the FDL blogroll within the last few days. Yesterday I noticed it missing. But, alas, I didn&#8217;t have the forethought to take screenshots. So, I can&#8217;t prove that I saw what I thought saw.</p>
<p>Beyond that I can only say that I <em>might</em> have been mistaken, and <em>if</em> I was I&#8217;m sorry for the implication that it was removed in retaliation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lorin11</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/browning-out/#comment-6450</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorin11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/358/#comment-6450</guid>
		<description>Terrance:  I wrote to Jane Hamsher to protest the removing of your blog from her roll, and was advised that this occurred quite some time ago, as they moved from one blogging system to another.  She was quite upset with the implication that it was otherwise, and I have apologized to her for the misunderstanding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrance:  I wrote to Jane Hamsher to protest the removing of your blog from her roll, and was advised that this occurred quite some time ago, as they moved from one blogging system to another.  She was quite upset with the implication that it was otherwise, and I have apologized to her for the misunderstanding.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lorin11</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/browning-out/#comment-6438</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorin11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/358/#comment-6438</guid>
		<description>Thank you for posting this, Terrance.  I missed the whole hulabaloo, as I was off-line this weekend spending quality time with my son.  But, if a diary is to be judged by the responses to it, your comment has actually created dialogue.  (I reviewed the comments to your cross-posting to DailyKos as well).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for posting this, Terrance.  I missed the whole hulabaloo, as I was off-line this weekend spending quality time with my son.  But, if a diary is to be judged by the responses to it, your comment has actually created dialogue.  (I reviewed the comments to your cross-posting to DailyKos as well).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Bill Clinton Lunches With Whites. Also, Firedoglake sucks.</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/browning-out/#comment-6424</link>
		<dc:creator>Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Bill Clinton Lunches With Whites. Also, Firedoglake sucks.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/09/17/358/#comment-6424</guid>
		<description>[...] There&#8217;s also a not-very-hidden bullying aspect to this; a smarmy &#8220;we&#8217;re a big blog, you peasant shits can&#8217;t criticize us&#8221; attitude. For instance, in the comments of Liza&#8217;s post, T-Rex announced his intention to attack Liza from Firedoglake by announcing &#8220;I&#8217;m going to make you a star.&#8221; (I&#8217;m not saying that big bloggers can&#8217;t critique small bloggers; but they should do it without the smary self-importance and the bullying attitude). And Terrance noticed that shortly after criticizing Firedoglake, he&#8217;s no longer on their blogroll. Similarly, Liza has been removed from the Kos blogroll. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There&#8217;s also a not-very-hidden bullying aspect to this; a smarmy &#8220;we&#8217;re a big blog, you peasant shits can&#8217;t criticize us&#8221; attitude. For instance, in the comments of Liza&#8217;s post, T-Rex announced his intention to attack Liza from Firedoglake by announcing &#8220;I&#8217;m going to make you a star.&#8221; (I&#8217;m not saying that big bloggers can&#8217;t critique small bloggers; but they should do it without the smary self-importance and the bullying attitude). And Terrance noticed that shortly after criticizing Firedoglake, he&#8217;s no longer on their blogroll. Similarly, Liza has been removed from the Kos blogroll. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
