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	<title>Comments on: Gays &amp; God&#8217;s Politics</title>
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	<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/</link>
	<description>Black. Gay. Father. Vegetarian. Buddhist. Liberal.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 02:47:01 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-12976</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/#comment-12976</guid>
		<description>I was never disputing the extreme difficulties that families experience when having to live withou the benefits and rights that other families have.

But I see your arguments as being either/or. Jim Wallis says it&#039;s an important issue in his book, but because he spent more time devoted to other issues, you put words in his mouth, that he is choosing these other &quot;not as important&quot; things over the issue of gay rights. I&#039;m just wondering what he would have had to do in order to please you.

I think it&#039;s great that you&#039;ve spent years working on AIDS in this continent. AIDS &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; still a problem in this country, despite that people prefer to forget about it. But it is also true that AIDS &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; a much bigger problem in Africa. 

When I talked about Jim thinking of the children in Darfur, he wasn&#039;t thinking about children who don&#039;t have the benefit of parents who are legally married to each other. I was talking about children that are being thrown into fire pits and murdered. Children whose parents, married or unmarried are murdered. How can you possibly see both those scenarios as being equally unjust? When you put marriage legislation and genocide as being equally important, it is you who is making the either/or decision. You are basically saying that anyone who doesn&#039;t seen American same-sex legislation as equal to all other global problems, they are wrong for doing so, or maybe even, you see them as hateful, or only &quot;parttially progressive.&quot; To be a real, true progressive, someone who really has it right, you must think that same-sex legislation is more important, or at least equally important to AIDS, hunger, starvation, genocide... 

While I understand the importance of all that you are saying, it doesn&#039;t seem very fair that everyone has to have the same priorities as you do- which is basically what you&#039;re saying. Same-sex marriage legislation needs to be a number one priority for everyone or they&#039;re wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was never disputing the extreme difficulties that families experience when having to live withou the benefits and rights that other families have.</p>
<p>But I see your arguments as being either/or. Jim Wallis says it&#8217;s an important issue in his book, but because he spent more time devoted to other issues, you put words in his mouth, that he is choosing these other &#8220;not as important&#8221; things over the issue of gay rights. I&#8217;m just wondering what he would have had to do in order to please you.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s great that you&#8217;ve spent years working on AIDS in this continent. AIDS <i>is</i> still a problem in this country, despite that people prefer to forget about it. But it is also true that AIDS <i>is</i> a much bigger problem in Africa. </p>
<p>When I talked about Jim thinking of the children in Darfur, he wasn&#8217;t thinking about children who don&#8217;t have the benefit of parents who are legally married to each other. I was talking about children that are being thrown into fire pits and murdered. Children whose parents, married or unmarried are murdered. How can you possibly see both those scenarios as being equally unjust? When you put marriage legislation and genocide as being equally important, it is you who is making the either/or decision. You are basically saying that anyone who doesn&#8217;t seen American same-sex legislation as equal to all other global problems, they are wrong for doing so, or maybe even, you see them as hateful, or only &#8220;parttially progressive.&#8221; To be a real, true progressive, someone who really has it right, you must think that same-sex legislation is more important, or at least equally important to AIDS, hunger, starvation, genocide&#8230; </p>
<p>While I understand the importance of all that you are saying, it doesn&#8217;t seem very fair that everyone has to have the same priorities as you do- which is basically what you&#8217;re saying. Same-sex marriage legislation needs to be a number one priority for everyone or they&#8217;re wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Molly</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-11928</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Nov 2006 22:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/#comment-11928</guid>
		<description>This made me instantly think of Civil Rights and whatnot. Women were told to wait for their rights, they could only focus on one thing at a time. However, these ladies shouldn&#039;t be selfish and focus on their rights, nor on their daughters rights. These women needed to wait until the &quot;right&quot; time to be equal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This made me instantly think of Civil Rights and whatnot. Women were told to wait for their rights, they could only focus on one thing at a time. However, these ladies shouldn&#8217;t be selfish and focus on their rights, nor on their daughters rights. These women needed to wait until the &#8220;right&#8221; time to be equal.</p>
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		<title>By: terrance</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-10941</link>
		<dc:creator>terrance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 21:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/#comment-10941</guid>
		<description>Let me see if I can address this. I&#039;m &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; saying Wallis is wrong for placing a priority on the issues or war, poverty, etc. And I&#039;d be the first to praise &lt;em&gt;real&lt;/em&gt; efforts to prevent HIV/AIDS and provide access to treatments in Africa, having spend several year fighting the epidemic on &lt;em&gt;this&lt;/em&gt; continent. I said earlier that I agree with Wallis on those issues. I&#039;m surprised at how much common ground we have. 

What I&#039;m saying is that I don&#039;t understand why it has to be an either/or situation; as in &quot;either we work on issues of peace, poverty, ect., &lt;em&gt;or&lt;/em&gt; we work on issues of gay &amp; lesbian equality.&quot; Is there some reason why it &lt;em&gt;has&lt;/em&gt; to be either/or? The only reason I get from Wallis is that the conversation is just too emotional and divisive to have right now. 

Maybe a few decades from now, it won&#039;t be. But in the meantime that will mean a lot or our families will suffer the lack of benefits and protections that other families enjoy. It means that some of us will be shut out of hospital rooms when our partners are sick and/or dying. It means that some of us will lose everything if a partner dies unexpectedly, without a will, because we have no legal status and no rights to inherit. It  means that some of us will lose our homes because of we don&#039;t get the benefits that marries spouses get to keep their families afloat. It means that some of us will lose our children or have our legal rights as parents called into question, because our relationships have no legal status. It means that our children will endure all of the above along with us. 

All this will happen while we&#039;re waiting; while we&#039;re making commitments to each other, building families, and contributing to our communities. And most of it will happen without remedy and out of public view, while we&#039;re waiting and continuing to contribute to &lt;em&gt;exactly&lt;/em&gt; the kind of cultural change Wallis says is needed, and effectively being penalized for doing so. We&#039;d actually fare &lt;em&gt;better&lt;/em&gt; in many ways if we didn&#039;t commit ourselves to one another, our children, and our communities. 

What I haven&#039;t heard is what we&#039;re supposed to do while we&#039;re waiting, other than set all of the above aside and do something else. I haven&#039;t heard how we&#039;re supposed to protect our families as we&#039;re working without the social support or safety net that other families have to fall back on in times of crisis; a safety net that our friends and neighbors can&#039;t replace. The legal options we have give us a few protections, at best, but they may not be recognized when we need them to be. So, in the meantime, while we&#039;re waiting, how do we protect our families? How do I not end up living any one of the stories I linked above?

Or am I &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; supposed to care about any of that, or &lt;em&gt;want&lt;/em&gt; anyone else to care enough to do something about it? 

When I think about the children you mentioned, I think of my own too, as Wallis does, and I see my child in them. But Wallis&#039; children &lt;em&gt;have&lt;/em&gt; the benefit of having parents who can legally marry each other, and access the full array of benefits and protections society has put in place to encourage that level of commitment. My son does &lt;em&gt;not.&lt;/em&gt; So, am I supposed to think &lt;em&gt;less&lt;/em&gt; of my child than the rest? Am I supposed to think of my child as less important? 

Or should I not have become a parent in the first place? Should I not have entered into a commitment to family and community and just &quot;waited&quot; until everything else is taken care of, since we would be making those commitments only to not have support when we need it?

Am I supposed to see how vulnerable my family is, and by extension my child, and &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; do everything I can to change that? Or am I just supposed to go it alone in the meantime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me see if I can address this. I&#8217;m <em>not</em> saying Wallis is wrong for placing a priority on the issues or war, poverty, etc. And I&#8217;d be the first to praise <em>real</em> efforts to prevent HIV/AIDS and provide access to treatments in Africa, having spend several year fighting the epidemic on <em>this</em> continent. I said earlier that I agree with Wallis on those issues. I&#8217;m surprised at how much common ground we have. </p>
<p>What I&#8217;m saying is that I don&#8217;t understand why it has to be an either/or situation; as in &#8220;either we work on issues of peace, poverty, ect., <em>or</em> we work on issues of gay &#038; lesbian equality.&#8221; Is there some reason why it <em>has</em> to be either/or? The only reason I get from Wallis is that the conversation is just too emotional and divisive to have right now. </p>
<p>Maybe a few decades from now, it won&#8217;t be. But in the meantime that will mean a lot or our families will suffer the lack of benefits and protections that other families enjoy. It means that some of us will be shut out of hospital rooms when our partners are sick and/or dying. It means that some of us will lose everything if a partner dies unexpectedly, without a will, because we have no legal status and no rights to inherit. It  means that some of us will lose our homes because of we don&#8217;t get the benefits that marries spouses get to keep their families afloat. It means that some of us will lose our children or have our legal rights as parents called into question, because our relationships have no legal status. It means that our children will endure all of the above along with us. </p>
<p>All this will happen while we&#8217;re waiting; while we&#8217;re making commitments to each other, building families, and contributing to our communities. And most of it will happen without remedy and out of public view, while we&#8217;re waiting and continuing to contribute to <em>exactly</em> the kind of cultural change Wallis says is needed, and effectively being penalized for doing so. We&#8217;d actually fare <em>better</em> in many ways if we didn&#8217;t commit ourselves to one another, our children, and our communities. </p>
<p>What I haven&#8217;t heard is what we&#8217;re supposed to do while we&#8217;re waiting, other than set all of the above aside and do something else. I haven&#8217;t heard how we&#8217;re supposed to protect our families as we&#8217;re working without the social support or safety net that other families have to fall back on in times of crisis; a safety net that our friends and neighbors can&#8217;t replace. The legal options we have give us a few protections, at best, but they may not be recognized when we need them to be. So, in the meantime, while we&#8217;re waiting, how do we protect our families? How do I not end up living any one of the stories I linked above?</p>
<p>Or am I <em>not</em> supposed to care about any of that, or <em>want</em> anyone else to care enough to do something about it? </p>
<p>When I think about the children you mentioned, I think of my own too, as Wallis does, and I see my child in them. But Wallis&#8217; children <em>have</em> the benefit of having parents who can legally marry each other, and access the full array of benefits and protections society has put in place to encourage that level of commitment. My son does <em>not.</em> So, am I supposed to think <em>less</em> of my child than the rest? Am I supposed to think of my child as less important? </p>
<p>Or should I not have become a parent in the first place? Should I not have entered into a commitment to family and community and just &#8220;waited&#8221; until everything else is taken care of, since we would be making those commitments only to not have support when we need it?</p>
<p>Am I supposed to see how vulnerable my family is, and by extension my child, and <em>not</em> do everything I can to change that? Or am I just supposed to go it alone in the meantime.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-10886</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 19:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/#comment-10886</guid>
		<description>Jim Wallis does care greatly about equal rights for gay couples. And while you may think me insensitive for saying this, I&#039;ll just have to deal with this. But how can you say that Wallis is wrong for putting the hundreds of thousands of deaths from violence in Darfur and Iraq, from AIDS, hunger, and disease. You talked about your own child. When Wallis thinks of the children dying around the world of hunger, or of the babies being thrown into fires in Sudan, he thinks of his own 3 year old. How can you possibly fault him for wanting those to be number one priorities? The oppressed in the U.S. have it quite easy in comparison to most around the world. Being able to get married is actually a luxury for many around the world, not because they are gay, but because they don&#039;t live long enough to do so.

I don&#039;t understand what&#039;s so wrong with him being more passionate about poverty and war than other issues. Should you be faulted for caring more about American gay rights than you do about people dying? Everyone has their passions.... if you understand his, let it go. Must everyone&#039;s agenda look exactly like yours?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim Wallis does care greatly about equal rights for gay couples. And while you may think me insensitive for saying this, I&#8217;ll just have to deal with this. But how can you say that Wallis is wrong for putting the hundreds of thousands of deaths from violence in Darfur and Iraq, from AIDS, hunger, and disease. You talked about your own child. When Wallis thinks of the children dying around the world of hunger, or of the babies being thrown into fires in Sudan, he thinks of his own 3 year old. How can you possibly fault him for wanting those to be number one priorities? The oppressed in the U.S. have it quite easy in comparison to most around the world. Being able to get married is actually a luxury for many around the world, not because they are gay, but because they don&#8217;t live long enough to do so.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand what&#8217;s so wrong with him being more passionate about poverty and war than other issues. Should you be faulted for caring more about American gay rights than you do about people dying? Everyone has their passions&#8230;. if you understand his, let it go. Must everyone&#8217;s agenda look exactly like yours?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris T.</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-10829</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 15:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/#comment-10829</guid>
		<description>This post is really excellent, Terrance. I blogged my own impressions of Wallis over at my place in response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post is really excellent, Terrance. I blogged my own impressions of Wallis over at my place in response.</p>
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		<title>By: Christina</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-10489</link>
		<dc:creator>Christina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 01:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/#comment-10489</guid>
		<description>Hello, I&#039;ve never been to your site before, but came across it while searching for references to include in a college paper I&#039;m writing in which I&#039;m defending the right of homosexual couples to marry.  
It&#039;s just a term paper, and it will be breaking no new ground. 
But I just wanted to chime in and say that I find you brilliant and inspiring.  I&#039;m (why do we have to even say this?, but here it is..) a heterosexual, married woman with a child and throughout the research I&#039;ve been doing I&#039;ve repeatedly been brought to tears by stories of gay and lesbian couples whose lives have been torn apart simply because they lacked legal rights that are &quot;no-brainers&quot; for married couples.  I even have trouble writing the paper because to me there&#039;s just no argument.  It seems so strikingly obvious.  
Just wanted to say hello, and when I&#039;m done with the work at hand (due tomorrow!), I&#039;ll be regularly checking in here.  This white. straight. mother. vegetarian. buddhist (budding). liberal. is so happy to have found you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, I&#8217;ve never been to your site before, but came across it while searching for references to include in a college paper I&#8217;m writing in which I&#8217;m defending the right of homosexual couples to marry.<br />
It&#8217;s just a term paper, and it will be breaking no new ground.<br />
But I just wanted to chime in and say that I find you brilliant and inspiring.  I&#8217;m (why do we have to even say this?, but here it is..) a heterosexual, married woman with a child and throughout the research I&#8217;ve been doing I&#8217;ve repeatedly been brought to tears by stories of gay and lesbian couples whose lives have been torn apart simply because they lacked legal rights that are &#8220;no-brainers&#8221; for married couples.  I even have trouble writing the paper because to me there&#8217;s just no argument.  It seems so strikingly obvious.<br />
Just wanted to say hello, and when I&#8217;m done with the work at hand (due tomorrow!), I&#8217;ll be regularly checking in here.  This white. straight. mother. vegetarian. buddhist (budding). liberal. is so happy to have found you!</p>
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		<title>By: Cowboy Diva</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-10374</link>
		<dc:creator>Cowboy Diva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Nov 2006 22:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2006/11/01/gays-gods-politics/#comment-10374</guid>
		<description>Is Wallis&#039; audience people like you or people like him (evangelicals)? With no denigration of your (very heartfelt, discerning, and important) response, I think that Wallis is urging his fellow evangelicals to shut up about gay marriage for a while, as the larger &quot;threats&quot; to their faith are things like war, poverty and violence; what is important to the strength and value of the evangelical community is how they deal with those issues as christians. As for gay marriage and the treatment of women and children I would like to think that those things would be treated with respect in the reconciliation of the evangelical christian&#039;s response to Wallis&#039; primary issues. In other words, my marriage to my wife and our child together should have no bearing, positive or negative, on an evangelical&#039;s worldview. Wallis says that instead of worrying about how to subjugate the minority, evangelical christians should worry about how to care for them; that means at the macro level with war and poverty, and at the personal level in learning how to deal with/love people like you and me.  
thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is Wallis&#8217; audience people like you or people like him (evangelicals)? With no denigration of your (very heartfelt, discerning, and important) response, I think that Wallis is urging his fellow evangelicals to shut up about gay marriage for a while, as the larger &#8220;threats&#8221; to their faith are things like war, poverty and violence; what is important to the strength and value of the evangelical community is how they deal with those issues as christians. As for gay marriage and the treatment of women and children I would like to think that those things would be treated with respect in the reconciliation of the evangelical christian&#8217;s response to Wallis&#8217; primary issues. In other words, my marriage to my wife and our child together should have no bearing, positive or negative, on an evangelical&#8217;s worldview. Wallis says that instead of worrying about how to subjugate the minority, evangelical christians should worry about how to care for them; that means at the macro level with war and poverty, and at the personal level in learning how to deal with/love people like you and me.<br />
thanks.</p>
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