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	<title>Comments on: Defending Dawkins?</title>
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	<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/</link>
	<description>Black. Gay. Father. Vegetarian. Buddhist. Liberal.</description>
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		<title>By: Damien</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/comment-page-1/#comment-40428</link>
		<dc:creator>Damien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 08:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/#comment-40428</guid>
		<description>Regarding an ardent atheist being religious: Dawkins points out that being passionate is not the same as being fundamentalist.

Regarding Buddhism not being a religion: Dawkins doesn&#039;t assert that, he raises the possibility with regard to Buddhism and Confucianism, in the process of saying he won&#039;t be attacking them.  Partly because he doesn&#039;t know as much about them.

As for whether they are religions: that&#039;s a bit like asking whether a living Neanderthal would be a human.  Kind of depends on how you define religion!  Also on what you mean by Buddhism: the agnostic path to enlightenment through meditation put forth by Gautama, or the more supernatural melange of reincarnation, boddhisattvas, &quot;merit&quot; (sometimes obtainable through spinning prayer wheels, or reciting belief in a Buddha who&#039;ll gather souls to a paradise), and demons often found in Buddhism-as-practiced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding an ardent atheist being religious: Dawkins points out that being passionate is not the same as being fundamentalist.</p>
<p>Regarding Buddhism not being a religion: Dawkins doesn&#8217;t assert that, he raises the possibility with regard to Buddhism and Confucianism, in the process of saying he won&#8217;t be attacking them.  Partly because he doesn&#8217;t know as much about them.</p>
<p>As for whether they are religions: that&#8217;s a bit like asking whether a living Neanderthal would be a human.  Kind of depends on how you define religion!  Also on what you mean by Buddhism: the agnostic path to enlightenment through meditation put forth by Gautama, or the more supernatural melange of reincarnation, boddhisattvas, &#8220;merit&#8221; (sometimes obtainable through spinning prayer wheels, or reciting belief in a Buddha who&#8217;ll gather souls to a paradise), and demons often found in Buddhism-as-practiced.</p>
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		<title>By: chasmyn</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/comment-page-1/#comment-22150</link>
		<dc:creator>chasmyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/#comment-22150</guid>
		<description>Very thought provoking. 

Personally, I like Dawkins&#039; assertion that Buddhism isn&#039;t a real religion, mostly because I identify strongly with Buddhism and I think of it in much the same way. To me that just gives it even more credence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very thought provoking. </p>
<p>Personally, I like Dawkins&#8217; assertion that Buddhism isn&#8217;t a real religion, mostly because I identify strongly with Buddhism and I think of it in much the same way. To me that just gives it even more credence.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Brayton</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/comment-page-1/#comment-22131</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Brayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/#comment-22131</guid>
		<description>For the record, the claim about the Grand Canyon employees not being allowed to tell visitors the real age of the canyon is false. When the report came out, there wasn&#039;t a shred of evidence for that claim and we&#039;ve now verified from those who work at the park that it&#039;s not true. There are other things in the report that are legitimate and worthy of criticism, but the headline claim is fictional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the record, the claim about the Grand Canyon employees not being allowed to tell visitors the real age of the canyon is false. When the report came out, there wasn&#8217;t a shred of evidence for that claim and we&#8217;ve now verified from those who work at the park that it&#8217;s not true. There are other things in the report that are legitimate and worthy of criticism, but the headline claim is fictional.</p>
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		<title>By: Why Dont You&#8230;Blog? &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Religious Furore</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/comment-page-1/#comment-22126</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Dont You&#8230;Blog? &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Religious Furore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/#comment-22126</guid>
		<description>[...] Well, a quick on following up on my previous post. Thanks to a link in the defending Dawkings blog post I read a rant titled &#8220;America, Not Keith Ellison, decides what book a congressman takes his oath on,&#8221; which is basically a right wing hate message about a Muslim supposedly intending to take his oath of office on the Quran rather than the Bible. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Well, a quick on following up on my previous post. Thanks to a link in the defending Dawkings blog post I read a rant titled &#8220;America, Not Keith Ellison, decides what book a congressman takes his oath on,&#8221; which is basically a right wing hate message about a Muslim supposedly intending to take his oath of office on the Quran rather than the Bible. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: rachel</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/comment-page-1/#comment-22123</link>
		<dc:creator>rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/#comment-22123</guid>
		<description>Found you via The Zero Boss.  I am reading The God Delusion right now myself, and I can understand why a believer might be upset by it.  They&#039;re used to being treated with kid gloves.  Hell, I do it -- I hid the book while my sister was visiting.

And Dawkins makes the point that while the vehement atheist may SEEM as blindly dogmatic as the vehement believer, all it would take is one piece of real evidence to the contrary to force him to rethink his position.  Whereas the believer, in the face of thousand of pieces of evidence, still isn&#039;t budging.

Your tagline says you&#039;re a Buddhist.  What do you make of Dawkins&#039; assertion that Buddhism doesn&#039;t count as a religion?  My exposure to Buddhism comes mostly from &quot;Buddhism Without Beliefs&quot;, by Stephen Batchelor, and I have to say, the idea that you can practice it without having to believe in god(s) or even a soul really appeals to me.  But is that idea common or even accepted among Buddhists in general?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Found you via The Zero Boss.  I am reading The God Delusion right now myself, and I can understand why a believer might be upset by it.  They&#8217;re used to being treated with kid gloves.  Hell, I do it &#8212; I hid the book while my sister was visiting.</p>
<p>And Dawkins makes the point that while the vehement atheist may SEEM as blindly dogmatic as the vehement believer, all it would take is one piece of real evidence to the contrary to force him to rethink his position.  Whereas the believer, in the face of thousand of pieces of evidence, still isn&#8217;t budging.</p>
<p>Your tagline says you&#8217;re a Buddhist.  What do you make of Dawkins&#8217; assertion that Buddhism doesn&#8217;t count as a religion?  My exposure to Buddhism comes mostly from &#8220;Buddhism Without Beliefs&#8221;, by Stephen Batchelor, and I have to say, the idea that you can practice it without having to believe in god(s) or even a soul really appeals to me.  But is that idea common or even accepted among Buddhists in general?</p>
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		<title>By: TW</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/comment-page-1/#comment-22115</link>
		<dc:creator>TW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/#comment-22115</guid>
		<description>Excellent post and very interesting thanks for making it. I cant say I agree with (how I have interpreted) Katie&#039;s comments though, I really do not see why some one who is devoutly religious has any more right to my respect than anyone else. 

Is an &quot;ardent atheist religious?&quot; Personally I don&#039;t think so, but I can see where the point of view comes from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post and very interesting thanks for making it. I cant say I agree with (how I have interpreted) Katie&#8217;s comments though, I really do not see why some one who is devoutly religious has any more right to my respect than anyone else. </p>
<p>Is an &#8220;ardent atheist religious?&#8221; Personally I don&#8217;t think so, but I can see where the point of view comes from.</p>
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		<title>By: Why Dont You&#8230;Blog? &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Religion or not?</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/comment-page-1/#comment-22114</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Dont You&#8230;Blog? &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Religion or not?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/#comment-22114</guid>
		<description>[...] Basically, is Buddhism a religion or not? I found a blog which asked if it was possible to be an atheist and a Buddhist at the same time&#160;and personally I think the short answer is yes, which in turn implies that Buddhism is not a &#8220;religion&#8221; in the normal term. The blog post debates it in much better terms than I can or will do here, and brings in the addition of Confucianism to the question (based on a sentence in the God Delusion). In a similar vein, I found another Buddhist&#8217;s blog &#8220;defending Dawkins&#8221; which largely leaves me thinking, in line with Dawkins, that Buddhism should not be described as a &#8220;religion&#8221; in the normal sense. Both these blog articles are well written and interesting, so any attempts by me to cut parts here would be doomed to failure. I strongly suggest you visit those two sites and have a look. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Basically, is Buddhism a religion or not? I found a blog which asked if it was possible to be an atheist and a Buddhist at the same time&nbsp;and personally I think the short answer is yes, which in turn implies that Buddhism is not a &#8220;religion&#8221; in the normal term. The blog post debates it in much better terms than I can or will do here, and brings in the addition of Confucianism to the question (based on a sentence in the God Delusion). In a similar vein, I found another Buddhist&#8217;s blog &#8220;defending Dawkins&#8221; which largely leaves me thinking, in line with Dawkins, that Buddhism should not be described as a &#8220;religion&#8221; in the normal sense. Both these blog articles are well written and interesting, so any attempts by me to cut parts here would be doomed to failure. I strongly suggest you visit those two sites and have a look. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lorin11</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/comment-page-1/#comment-22074</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorin11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jan 2007 14:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/#comment-22074</guid>
		<description>I actually believe that an ardent atheist is religious, in the sense that he or she has absolute conviction that he or she is right.  And the template, in this culture, and many others, is for an ardent religionist to agressively advocate for his or her views.  In that sense, I see Dawkins as simply mirroring his culture with his aggressive stance.  Of course, given the relentless attack of the religious right on science and intellectual thought, I am not terribly upset at his approach.  The good news is that the so-called religious right positions used to be the consensus attitudes of most people.  The good news is that we have moved further from these attitudes over time.

I was raised as a Christian Scientist.  Beyond that having branded me, to most other so-called Christians, as an heretical cultist, it left me with a different attitude about prayer, and the proper place of religion.  I took to heart Matthew 6:5, which, to me, says that I should not be pushing my beliefs on anyone, by making a big production out of my faith.  I empathize with the folks in the article, who call themselves agnostics, so as not to publicly call out those who may feel differently. 

But Dawkins serves a useful purpose, as he throws others&#039; intolerance right back in their face, forcing them to confront how their attitudes repel any who are not already &quot;convinced&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually believe that an ardent atheist is religious, in the sense that he or she has absolute conviction that he or she is right.  And the template, in this culture, and many others, is for an ardent religionist to agressively advocate for his or her views.  In that sense, I see Dawkins as simply mirroring his culture with his aggressive stance.  Of course, given the relentless attack of the religious right on science and intellectual thought, I am not terribly upset at his approach.  The good news is that the so-called religious right positions used to be the consensus attitudes of most people.  The good news is that we have moved further from these attitudes over time.</p>
<p>I was raised as a Christian Scientist.  Beyond that having branded me, to most other so-called Christians, as an heretical cultist, it left me with a different attitude about prayer, and the proper place of religion.  I took to heart Matthew 6:5, which, to me, says that I should not be pushing my beliefs on anyone, by making a big production out of my faith.  I empathize with the folks in the article, who call themselves agnostics, so as not to publicly call out those who may feel differently. </p>
<p>But Dawkins serves a useful purpose, as he throws others&#8217; intolerance right back in their face, forcing them to confront how their attitudes repel any who are not already &#8220;convinced&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: terrance</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/comment-page-1/#comment-22066</link>
		<dc:creator>terrance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/#comment-22066</guid>
		<description>But why does religion deserve any more respect than any other set of beliefs or unproven hypotheses?  That&#039;s the question I think Dawkins and others are asking. And there haven&#039;t been many answers to that question beyond that many people &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; religious beliefs and that those beliefs make them &lt;i&gt;feel&lt;/i&gt; better. 

The other arguments Dawkins effectively answers. And despite the invalidity of the two above (the don&#039;t, after all, outweigh the trouble caused by intense religious belief) people still cling to them as reasons why religion deserve more respect than anything else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But why does religion deserve any more respect than any other set of beliefs or unproven hypotheses?  That&#8217;s the question I think Dawkins and others are asking. And there haven&#8217;t been many answers to that question beyond that many people <i>have</i> religious beliefs and that those beliefs make them <i>feel</i> better. </p>
<p>The other arguments Dawkins effectively answers. And despite the invalidity of the two above (the don&#8217;t, after all, outweigh the trouble caused by intense religious belief) people still cling to them as reasons why religion deserve more respect than anything else.</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/comment-page-1/#comment-22054</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jan 2007 09:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2007/01/03/defending-dawkins/#comment-22054</guid>
		<description>I see what you&#039;re getting at - however... the thing that bothers me about Dawkins is that he doesn&#039;t respect religion. I am as atheist as it comes, but I don&#039;t bring down other people that *are* religious. I don&#039;t think that they&#039;re any less intelligent than any given atheist, or any less worthy of respect. Dawkins doesn&#039;t seem to share this view. He is intolerant of religion, and to me that&#039;s the biggest problem with religion - intolerance. So to see him giving the same treatment only in the name of atheism is just shameful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see what you&#8217;re getting at &#8211; however&#8230; the thing that bothers me about Dawkins is that he doesn&#8217;t respect religion. I am as atheist as it comes, but I don&#8217;t bring down other people that *are* religious. I don&#8217;t think that they&#8217;re any less intelligent than any given atheist, or any less worthy of respect. Dawkins doesn&#8217;t seem to share this view. He is intolerant of religion, and to me that&#8217;s the biggest problem with religion &#8211; intolerance. So to see him giving the same treatment only in the name of atheism is just shameful.</p>
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