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	<title>Comments on: More Poisonous Parenting</title>
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	<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/08/06/more-poisonous-parenting/</link>
	<description>Black. Gay. Father. Vegetarian. Buddhist. Liberal.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: cwazycajun</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/08/06/more-poisonous-parenting/#comment-168928</link>
		<dc:creator>cwazycajun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2007/08/06/more-poisonous-parenting/#comment-168928</guid>
		<description>what would bust all those so called  gays arn't good parents crap  is if  the lawyers representin the gay adoption folks  get all the records of convictions of all the good upstandin christians that have done the most repehenceable vile horrible things they have done to children and bring those records into the court  all the boxes and boxes of cases where those so called good christians can see all the harm they have caused and shove it in there faces    but then again   they would just say    the devil made them do it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what would bust all those so called  gays arn&#8217;t good parents crap  is if  the lawyers representin the gay adoption folks  get all the records of convictions of all the good upstandin christians that have done the most repehenceable vile horrible things they have done to children and bring those records into the court  all the boxes and boxes of cases where those so called good christians can see all the harm they have caused and shove it in there faces    but then again   they would just say    the devil made them do it</p>
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		<title>By: Dale</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/08/06/more-poisonous-parenting/#comment-168467</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 21:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2007/08/06/more-poisonous-parenting/#comment-168467</guid>
		<description>"Very, very, very poorly played."

I have to agree with you that hard data would've been much more convincing AND that this is the exact same tactic used by the statistically challenged homophobes. But are there any cases of such child abuse by gay couples? I know of none, and if there were you know the christian freaks, uh, fundamentalists would've made it more than clear time ands time again. In this sense, I think the author has a point, and I do know of statistical studies that have shown gay couples to be just as good at parenting and perhaps even better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Very, very, very poorly played.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have to agree with you that hard data would&#8217;ve been much more convincing AND that this is the exact same tactic used by the statistically challenged homophobes. But are there any cases of such child abuse by gay couples? I know of none, and if there were you know the christian freaks, uh, fundamentalists would&#8217;ve made it more than clear time ands time again. In this sense, I think the author has a point, and I do know of statistical studies that have shown gay couples to be just as good at parenting and perhaps even better.</p>
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		<title>By: gh0st</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/08/06/more-poisonous-parenting/#comment-168332</link>
		<dc:creator>gh0st</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:21:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2007/08/06/more-poisonous-parenting/#comment-168332</guid>
		<description>Evidence that is nothing more than a list of analogous stories is the *exact* strategy of your opponents, and a strategy that is void of credibility and merit. I clicked this link expecting to see some interesting data, read a new report, something...

Instead, I find a laundry list of horrible and heart breaking stories...and not one single thing to further your cause. Someone could replace "Hetero" with "Homo" and this post would be right at home at any right wing hate sight...and you would very likely be up in arms trying to make the point, "Of course there are crazy gay people, but that doesn't mean..."

Very, very, very poorly played.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evidence that is nothing more than a list of analogous stories is the *exact* strategy of your opponents, and a strategy that is void of credibility and merit. I clicked this link expecting to see some interesting data, read a new report, something&#8230;</p>
<p>Instead, I find a laundry list of horrible and heart breaking stories&#8230;and not one single thing to further your cause. Someone could replace &#8220;Hetero&#8221; with &#8220;Homo&#8221; and this post would be right at home at any right wing hate sight&#8230;and you would very likely be up in arms trying to make the point, &#8220;Of course there are crazy gay people, but that doesn&#8217;t mean&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Very, very, very poorly played.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Schmitz</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2007/08/06/more-poisonous-parenting/#comment-166865</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Schmitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2007/08/06/more-poisonous-parenting/#comment-166865</guid>
		<description>from Schmitz Blitz: schmitzblitz.blogspot.com

Family Values Victory in the 10th Circuit
 
On August 3, 2007 the 10th Circuit Court ruled that the Oklahoma law that banned the recognition of out of state adoptions by same-sex couples was unconstitutional under the Full Faith and Credit Clause.

Finstuen v. Crutcher is a great victory for gay parents who previously risked having their parental rights stripped away upon entering the state of Okalahoma.

I found two things interesting about this case. First the Court decided to base its judgment on the Full Faith and Credit Clause without even addressing the Due Process or Equal Protection Clauses. The latter two are obvious points of contention to the Oklahoma statute—the law categorically rejected out of state adoption certificates granted only to couples of the same sex.

It seems the Court did not want to get into the politically risky realm of equal and fundamental rights for gays. It was probably wise on their part. This is the Mid West we’re talking about after all—the justices probably would have been burned in effigy and/or received death threats had they decided that gays had a constitutional right to adopt and be treated as equals.

I also think the potential impact this decision may have on DOMA is interesting because the easiest challenge to DOMA is that it too violates the Full Faith and Credit Clause by saying states do not have to recognize same sex marriages performed in other states. The 10th Circuit Court in Finstuen v. Crutcher, however, seemed to be careful in its wording saying:


&lt;blockquote&gt;In applying the Full Faith and Credit Clause, the Supreme Court has drawn a distinction between statutes and judgments. Specifically, the Court has been clear that although the Full Faith and Credit Clause applies unequivocally to the judgments of sister states, it applies with less force to their statutory laws. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Are they trying to set aside an exception that would allow DOMA to stand—somehow trying to classify one state’s acceptance of a same sex marriage as a ‘statutory law’ rather than a ‘judgment’, and thus not equivalent under the Full Faith and Credit Clause? Or are they trying to say that the Full Faith and Credit Clause is weaker, as a matter of fact, in cases of statutory law because of the generally accepted public policy exception?

Either way it seems the 10th Circuit tried to make their decision in Finstuen v. Crutcher just narrow enough so as not to deal a fatal blow to DOMA. However they provided just one more powerful background case to any future case that would deal with DOMA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>from Schmitz Blitz: schmitzblitz.blogspot.com</p>
<p>Family Values Victory in the 10th Circuit</p>
<p>On August 3, 2007 the 10th Circuit Court ruled that the Oklahoma law that banned the recognition of out of state adoptions by same-sex couples was unconstitutional under the Full Faith and Credit Clause.</p>
<p>Finstuen v. Crutcher is a great victory for gay parents who previously risked having their parental rights stripped away upon entering the state of Okalahoma.</p>
<p>I found two things interesting about this case. First the Court decided to base its judgment on the Full Faith and Credit Clause without even addressing the Due Process or Equal Protection Clauses. The latter two are obvious points of contention to the Oklahoma statute—the law categorically rejected out of state adoption certificates granted only to couples of the same sex.</p>
<p>It seems the Court did not want to get into the politically risky realm of equal and fundamental rights for gays. It was probably wise on their part. This is the Mid West we’re talking about after all—the justices probably would have been burned in effigy and/or received death threats had they decided that gays had a constitutional right to adopt and be treated as equals.</p>
<p>I also think the potential impact this decision may have on DOMA is interesting because the easiest challenge to DOMA is that it too violates the Full Faith and Credit Clause by saying states do not have to recognize same sex marriages performed in other states. The 10th Circuit Court in Finstuen v. Crutcher, however, seemed to be careful in its wording saying:</p>
<blockquote><p>In applying the Full Faith and Credit Clause, the Supreme Court has drawn a distinction between statutes and judgments. Specifically, the Court has been clear that although the Full Faith and Credit Clause applies unequivocally to the judgments of sister states, it applies with less force to their statutory laws. </p></blockquote>
<p>Are they trying to set aside an exception that would allow DOMA to stand—somehow trying to classify one state’s acceptance of a same sex marriage as a ‘statutory law’ rather than a ‘judgment’, and thus not equivalent under the Full Faith and Credit Clause? Or are they trying to say that the Full Faith and Credit Clause is weaker, as a matter of fact, in cases of statutory law because of the generally accepted public policy exception?</p>
<p>Either way it seems the 10th Circuit tried to make their decision in Finstuen v. Crutcher just narrow enough so as not to deal a fatal blow to DOMA. However they provided just one more powerful background case to any future case that would deal with DOMA.</p>
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