Comments on: Another Apology? http://www.republicoft.com/2008/03/14/another-apology/ Black. Gay. Father. Vegetarian. Buddhist. Liberal. Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:44:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Fr Chris http://www.republicoft.com/2008/03/14/another-apology/comment-page-1/#comment-180284 Fr Chris Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:35:19 +0000 http://www.republicoft.com/2008/03/14/another-apology/#comment-180284 Incidentally, celibacy is exactly what the ELCA currently requires of all its rostered gay and lesbian leaders. It requires chastity of all rostered leaders irrespective of sex or gender, but as it refuses to solemnize marriages (not holy unions, not "life commitment ceremonies", but <em>marriages</em>) for same-sex couples, the <i>de facto</i> requirement for rostered gay leaders who are in same-sex relationships is celibacy. Incidentally, celibacy is exactly what the ELCA currently requires of all its rostered gay and lesbian leaders. It requires chastity of all rostered leaders irrespective of sex or gender, but as it refuses to solemnize marriages (not holy unions, not “life commitment ceremonies”, but marriages) for same-sex couples, the de facto requirement for rostered gay leaders who are in same-sex relationships is celibacy.

]]> By: Fr Chris http://www.republicoft.com/2008/03/14/another-apology/comment-page-1/#comment-180283 Fr Chris Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:31:58 +0000 http://www.republicoft.com/2008/03/14/another-apology/#comment-180283 I have to say, having also been a part of these discussions as a lay-person before I left the ELCA, that this is not a big step forward. This is exactly where the ELCA was six years ago when my college congregation took part in the "Studies in Sexuality" thing, and it's almost exactly where the ELCA was over twenty years ago at the merger when they were telling gays and lesbians "not now". I'm furious about this report, and feel validating in finding a church community that does not relegate LGBTs to second-class status or engage in absurd hand-wringing about whether to "include" them. LGBTs are not people on the margins we can fight about "including" or "not including". They are faithful, loving people who are at the *center* of our community, who serve as pastors, priests, nuns, associates in ministry, strong lay leaders, and even bishops and denominational heads. We have to cut out this "compromise" nonsense and tell the truth -- it is not God's will that we continue to break the bones of our brothers and sisters who love those of the same sex. Until the ELCA wakes up and starts atoning for its appalling homophobia, until it makes up its mind about whether it is anti-gay or pro-gay, it will be "neither too hot nor too cold". As the Book of Revelation will tell you, that is not a good place to be. I have to say, having also been a part of these discussions as a lay-person before I left the ELCA, that this is not a big step forward. This is exactly where the ELCA was six years ago when my college congregation took part in the “Studies in Sexuality” thing, and it’s almost exactly where the ELCA was over twenty years ago at the merger when they were telling gays and lesbians “not now”.

I’m furious about this report, and feel validating in finding a church community that does not relegate LGBTs to second-class status or engage in absurd hand-wringing about whether to “include” them.

LGBTs are not people on the margins we can fight about “including” or “not including”. They are faithful, loving people who are at the *center* of our community, who serve as pastors, priests, nuns, associates in ministry, strong lay leaders, and even bishops and denominational heads. We have to cut out this “compromise” nonsense and tell the truth — it is not God’s will that we continue to break the bones of our brothers and sisters who love those of the same sex.

Until the ELCA wakes up and starts atoning for its appalling homophobia, until it makes up its mind about whether it is anti-gay or pro-gay, it will be “neither too hot nor too cold”. As the Book of Revelation will tell you, that is not a good place to be.

]]> By: Yondalla http://www.republicoft.com/2008/03/14/another-apology/comment-page-1/#comment-180280 Yondalla Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:03:42 +0000 http://www.republicoft.com/2008/03/14/another-apology/#comment-180280 These statements are compromises. I have been part of these disucssions, acutally in the Lutheran Church congregations (ELCA). Note that "chaste, mutual, monogamous, and lifelong" is given as something OTHER than celebate. Traditionally to have the virtue of chastity someone was celebrate before marriage and faithful thereafter. Sometimes being chaste in a relationship means having a certain attitude towards sex. It isn't just that I *only* have sex with my husband but that I regard our sex life as somehow sacred -- a gift. This is a big step. It doesn't go as far as it should, not be a long shot, but for decades all the church could get a majority of people to vote for was "Gay and lesbians are children of God and entitled to equal participation in the Church." These statements are compromises. I have been part of these disucssions, acutally in the Lutheran Church congregations (ELCA). Note that “chaste, mutual, monogamous, and lifelong” is given as something OTHER than celebate.

Traditionally to have the virtue of chastity someone was celebrate before marriage and faithful thereafter. Sometimes being chaste in a relationship means having a certain attitude towards sex. It isn’t just that I *only* have sex with my husband but that I regard our sex life as somehow sacred — a gift.

This is a big step. It doesn’t go as far as it should, not be a long shot, but for decades all the church could get a majority of people to vote for was “Gay and lesbians are children of God and entitled to equal participation in the Church.”

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