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	<title>Comments on: Poisonous Parenting: First Comes Love, Then Comes Marriage, Then&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/</link>
	<description>Black. Gay. Father. Vegetarian. Buddhist. Liberal.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 12:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bek</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/comment-page-1/#comment-182482</link>
		<dc:creator>Bek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 02:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/#comment-182482</guid>
		<description>OK, it's from 2005. Panic abating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, it&#8217;s from 2005. Panic abating.</p>
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		<title>By: Bek</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/comment-page-1/#comment-182481</link>
		<dc:creator>Bek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 02:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/#comment-182481</guid>
		<description>Hey, I jumped on that Indiana link to that crazy law, since I'm from Indiana and it was news to me ... but it links to our new lead poisoning prevention law, and not anything about marriage. Aargh! I'm going to go comb the in.gov Web site for the law; if anyone happens to have the link handy and can post it I would appreciate it. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I jumped on that Indiana link to that crazy law, since I&#8217;m from Indiana and it was news to me &#8230; but it links to our new lead poisoning prevention law, and not anything about marriage. Aargh! I&#8217;m going to go comb the in.gov Web site for the law; if anyone happens to have the link handy and can post it I would appreciate it. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/comment-page-1/#comment-182422</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/#comment-182422</guid>
		<description>Not really a criticism.  I'm all for your effort in keeping up this blog.  But Germany did not legalize same sex MARRIAGE in 2001.  They have a sort of civil union.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not really a criticism.  I&#8217;m all for your effort in keeping up this blog.  But Germany did not legalize same sex MARRIAGE in 2001.  They have a sort of civil union.</p>
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		<title>By: Marna</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/comment-page-1/#comment-182393</link>
		<dc:creator>Marna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 03:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/#comment-182393</guid>
		<description>Love is love, it is what it is, regardless if it's between men and women, men and men, women and women.  I for the life of me don't understand why the world doesn't get that.  The God I love and believe in doesn't care who you love as long as it's safe, sane, and consenual.

I hope you go on to have many many children to love. I can tell you would be an outstanding father:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love is love, it is what it is, regardless if it&#8217;s between men and women, men and men, women and women.  I for the life of me don&#8217;t understand why the world doesn&#8217;t get that.  The God I love and believe in doesn&#8217;t care who you love as long as it&#8217;s safe, sane, and consenual.</p>
<p>I hope you go on to have many many children to love. I can tell you would be an outstanding father:)</p>
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		<title>By: Lucas</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/comment-page-1/#comment-182392</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 01:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/#comment-182392</guid>
		<description>I think OL is responding to KE rather than T. I find it interesting that OL takes offense for a person who is against same-sex marriage being called at bigot. Let's examine that a bit. As OL already pointed out a bigot is: &lt;blockquote&gt;a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.&lt;blockquote&gt; So, the first requirement for this person to be labeled a bigot is "prejudice". Now, suppose the person holds no ill opinion of gay people in thinking, that they should have the freedom to love whoever they want, and be in a loving relationship as everyone else, blah, blah, blah. But, why against same-sex marriage? Why is marriage reserved only for heterosexual couples only?

The point of T's posts in this series is to point out the injustices of labeling homosexual parents as "bad parents", even in comparison to horrible heterosexual parents, who are *AUTOMATICALLY ASSUMED TO BE BETTER PARENTS than the best of homosexual parents. This injustice flies in the face of studies showing gay parents are just as good of parents as their heterosexual counterparts. So the argument that heterosexual parents are inherently better than their homosexual counterparts clearly provides no argument against sames-sex marriage.

Of course, same-sex couples cannot make babies -- so they must adopt, artificially inseminate or go outside of their relationship in order to make babies. However, the same thing applies to infertile heterosexual couples, and yet they are allowed to marry. So, clearly, infertility (or unnatural procreation) is not a reason against same-sex marriage.

We already know, that heterosexual parents can turn out good children who become productive members of the society. How does homosexual parents fare when it comes to raising their children? Do all of the children become gay as well? Studies show, that children raised with homosexual parents are just as normal and typically heterosexual as the heterosexual parents do, with one crucial difference: the children tend to be more open minded and explore new ideas than those raised by heterosexual parents. So, again, that's not an argument against same-sex marriage either.

So, what is the argument against same-sex marriage? What it usually boils down to is one's personal religious beliefs. However, personal religious beliefs are *NOT* rational thinking or logical argument. By definition, religious beliefs are taken in by faith -- in absence and/or in contrary to logical or rational thinking. So one may go so far as saying that a person using religious arguments against same-sex marriage is prejudiced against same-sex marriage, since it is a preconceived notion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

So, in absence of any other reason against same-sex marriage, being against same-sex marriage, the person is intolerant of lifestyles or identities of gay folks who want to get married. By using religious beliefs, the person is being prejudiced against sames-sex couples who want to get married. If the person insist upon rejecting same-sex marriage -- is that not, by your definition, OL, a bigot?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think OL is responding to KE rather than T. I find it interesting that OL takes offense for a person who is against same-sex marriage being called at bigot. Let&#8217;s examine that a bit. As OL already pointed out a bigot is:<br />
<blockquote>a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.<br />
<blockquote> So, the first requirement for this person to be labeled a bigot is &#8220;prejudice&#8221;. Now, suppose the person holds no ill opinion of gay people in thinking, that they should have the freedom to love whoever they want, and be in a loving relationship as everyone else, blah, blah, blah. But, why against same-sex marriage? Why is marriage reserved only for heterosexual couples only?</p>
<p>The point of T&#8217;s posts in this series is to point out the injustices of labeling homosexual parents as &#8220;bad parents&#8221;, even in comparison to horrible heterosexual parents, who are *AUTOMATICALLY ASSUMED TO BE BETTER PARENTS than the best of homosexual parents. This injustice flies in the face of studies showing gay parents are just as good of parents as their heterosexual counterparts. So the argument that heterosexual parents are inherently better than their homosexual counterparts clearly provides no argument against sames-sex marriage.</p>
<p>Of course, same-sex couples cannot make babies &#8212; so they must adopt, artificially inseminate or go outside of their relationship in order to make babies. However, the same thing applies to infertile heterosexual couples, and yet they are allowed to marry. So, clearly, infertility (or unnatural procreation) is not a reason against same-sex marriage.</p>
<p>We already know, that heterosexual parents can turn out good children who become productive members of the society. How does homosexual parents fare when it comes to raising their children? Do all of the children become gay as well? Studies show, that children raised with homosexual parents are just as normal and typically heterosexual as the heterosexual parents do, with one crucial difference: the children tend to be more open minded and explore new ideas than those raised by heterosexual parents. So, again, that&#8217;s not an argument against same-sex marriage either.</p>
<p>So, what is the argument against same-sex marriage? What it usually boils down to is one&#8217;s personal religious beliefs. However, personal religious beliefs are *NOT* rational thinking or logical argument. By definition, religious beliefs are taken in by faith &#8212; in absence and/or in contrary to logical or rational thinking. So one may go so far as saying that a person using religious arguments against same-sex marriage is prejudiced against same-sex marriage, since it is a preconceived notion that is not based on reason or actual experience.</p>
<p>So, in absence of any other reason against same-sex marriage, being against same-sex marriage, the person is intolerant of lifestyles or identities of gay folks who want to get married. By using religious beliefs, the person is being prejudiced against sames-sex couples who want to get married. If the person insist upon rejecting same-sex marriage &#8212; is that not, by your definition, OL, a bigot?</p></blockquote>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/comment-page-1/#comment-182389</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/#comment-182389</guid>
		<description>ObamaLies, you may just win the prize for dumbest troll ever.

Thinking that an entire group of people deserve to be second-class citizens based on their sexual orientation &lt;em&gt;makes you a bigot&lt;/em&gt;. Gays aren't asking that straight people give up any of their basic rights, so your argument that T is a bigot is ridiculous, given that he is not in fact intolerant of opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from his own -- unless you mean that he dislikes bigotry, which he does. But pointing out bigotry is not the same as being a bigot. Do you see Terrance calling City Hall and demanding that fundamentalist bigots have their marriage rights removed? Do you see him saying that conservative religious people shouldn't be allowed to adopt children? Do you even see him saying that people shouldn't have the right to say idiotic bigoted things if they so choose? Do you see him trying to limit anyone's rights, or doing anything else that exhibits actual &lt;em&gt;intolerance&lt;/em&gt; as opposed to disagreement, frustration and anger? 

I would suggest re-reading your definition of "bigot" if you need further assistance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ObamaLies, you may just win the prize for dumbest troll ever.</p>
<p>Thinking that an entire group of people deserve to be second-class citizens based on their sexual orientation <em>makes you a bigot</em>. Gays aren&#8217;t asking that straight people give up any of their basic rights, so your argument that T is a bigot is ridiculous, given that he is not in fact intolerant of opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from his own &#8212; unless you mean that he dislikes bigotry, which he does. But pointing out bigotry is not the same as being a bigot. Do you see Terrance calling City Hall and demanding that fundamentalist bigots have their marriage rights removed? Do you see him saying that conservative religious people shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to adopt children? Do you even see him saying that people shouldn&#8217;t have the right to say idiotic bigoted things if they so choose? Do you see him trying to limit anyone&#8217;s rights, or doing anything else that exhibits actual <em>intolerance</em> as opposed to disagreement, frustration and anger? </p>
<p>I would suggest re-reading your definition of &#8220;bigot&#8221; if you need further assistance.</p>
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		<title>By: Obama Lies</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/comment-page-1/#comment-182388</link>
		<dc:creator>Obama Lies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/#comment-182388</guid>
		<description>So if I get this right, anybody that disagrees with same sex marriage is an anti gay bigot.  What makes a bigot?   "a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own"  I propose that people in favor of gay marriage are anti heterosexual bigots.  You have no argument.  You're calling people bigots when you yourself are one.  You can say, I disagree with your stance, but this name calling, and attacks on character get you no where.  It's going to come down to a numbers game.  The one advantage heterosexuals have is they can have kids a whole lot cheaper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So if I get this right, anybody that disagrees with same sex marriage is an anti gay bigot.  What makes a bigot?   &#8220;a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own&#8221;  I propose that people in favor of gay marriage are anti heterosexual bigots.  You have no argument.  You&#8217;re calling people bigots when you yourself are one.  You can say, I disagree with your stance, but this name calling, and attacks on character get you no where.  It&#8217;s going to come down to a numbers game.  The one advantage heterosexuals have is they can have kids a whole lot cheaper.</p>
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		<title>By: KipEsquire</title>
		<link>http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/comment-page-1/#comment-182386</link>
		<dc:creator>KipEsquire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.republicoft.com/2008/06/17/poisonous-parenting-first-comes-love-then-comes-marriage-then/#comment-182386</guid>
		<description>I'm not a violent person, and I can suffer the slings and arrows of anti-gay bigotry like any other gay.

But if anyone were ever to suggest to my face that my aunt and uncle, who have one biological child and had two adopted children (one of whom has since died), somehow distinguish between "first class" and "second class" love between their two surviving children, especially in the wake of the tragic loss of their third child, then one of us would end up with a broken nose.

The capacity of some bigots to willfully confuse compassion with cruelty never ceases to amaze me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a violent person, and I can suffer the slings and arrows of anti-gay bigotry like any other gay.</p>
<p>But if anyone were ever to suggest to my face that my aunt and uncle, who have one biological child and had two adopted children (one of whom has since died), somehow distinguish between &#8220;first class&#8221; and &#8220;second class&#8221; love between their two surviving children, especially in the wake of the tragic loss of their third child, then one of us would end up with a broken nose.</p>
<p>The capacity of some bigots to willfully confuse compassion with cruelty never ceases to amaze me.</p>
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